Kennedy Assassination Books and Conspiracies

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 When Rosie Grier, a defensive tackle, says he can't wrestle the gun out of £160 man's hand, one hand had one hand grip on it and Rosie Greer could not get the gun out of his hand. By all accounts, that's a symptom of being under hypnosis. He also has no recollection of any of it happening, which is a symptom of being under hypnosis. None of the Kennedy kids think he did it. Not that that's a symptom of being under hypnosis, but like from the jump, he didn't know if he was guilty or not. Got a terrible trial with a ridiculous defense attorney because all he could say was, I don't know. So they were like, well, you know, basically you did it like you killed fricking Robert F Kennedy. And he had no recollection. His story never changed. He never failed a lie detector test. He never changed his tone. 2s A note as we welcome you to this conspiracy edition of the Criminal podcast. Every time I say South Carolina in the Lee Oswald story, I mean North Carolina. We will be providing you links to research materials, reference materials and books all along the way. So please enjoy the show. 2s I know, I know. I'm excited about the 60th anniversary of Kennedy's assassination. I know I probably brought it up to you, but where are you on the scale of, for example, you know, the initial report, the Warren Commission, which I find is oddly oddly embraced to this day, even though there's been like four subsequent commissions, notable ones like the House Select Committee on Assassination, that's 1975. And so there's subsequent far more transparent, far more just substantive good faith investigations on record that say no, there was almost certainly more than three shots and there was certainly a conspiracy. But it's odd where you're still kind of fighting this overwhelming tide of, 1s oh, it's well, the Warren Commission reported that's not even the official report anymore. Are you like me, where all this stuff when we were little kids about it, like I felt like we were finally owed an explanation. And there was a law passed about the records being released in 2017, and nobody's followed through on that, which only serves to make me think there's, you know, fuckery afoot. 2s Oliver Stone made a movie, I think it was called JFK. It had Kevin Costner in it. Um, it's a great movie. I don't know how much of it is accurate and how much of it is Hollywood, but the movie is fantastic. Um. 1s Jim Garrison. Jim Garrison was the Jim Garrison 1s in New Orleans, and he had the only attempted prosecution of a conspiracy of the assassination with his much ridiculed and maligned trial of Clay Shaw. But if you read Jim Garrison's book On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison, 1s the thing that stands out to you most is everywhere they went. For example, they'll go to the phone company to get a phone record and that the the record they want, that's the only page missing from that account history. Everywhere they would peek their nose, someone had picked their nose first and made things disappear in a way that 1s you have to like. How how could everywhere we go to follow a lead to get a what we think is going to be a smoking gun piece of evidence, somebody ahead of us. And for some reason that literally it'll just be a record disappeared out of a cabinet. But you're done. You're done. That lead is now. And that was Jim Garrison's story overwhelmingly. 1s But his book is great in that it reads like a true crime novel. He talks about his team, it turns out his team. He had a mole on his team. And that was the issue. That was why he had he had a Fed on his team that he was unaware of who was keeping other interests ahead of his own investigation. 2s But nothing weird about that, though. I mean. 1s But yeah, Jim Garrison and I would say that movie was, was probably more accurate than than you would think. I'm sure there's embellishments, but I do think he put a lot of focus on the right places, which is, well, you have to if it's a garrison story. But the New Orleans mob is the only mob in the country that doesn't need permission from the other families. For a national hit or to kill another family head like they don't need permission from anybody to do anything because they were the oldest first mob family in the country. And 1s also because Lee Oswald had a long history and a ton of contacts in New Orleans of all sorts of descriptions. I mean, he had friends who were like communist sympathizers and pro Castro, and then he had friends who are like militant right wingers. And he he lived and worked in a circle that overlapped with a lot of people from the movie JFK. In terms of Clay Shaw, that office, I want to say, who is the private investigator who. But it's that's a wonderful book I think you might enjoy because you probably know way more sort of of what that guy's daily would would have been like as an investigator. But I found it awesome. And to think it's a true story, it really did, like a fictional true crime. But it's just his perspective is is enlightening and wonderful book. Yeah, that's a that's On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison that the Amazon link will be below Yes yeah um the thing so with JFK what I, I think we've talked about this before. Um, if we're the government, we suck at everything. If you had three government workers in a room, they couldn't agree where to go to lunch. The fact that they would be able to keep. 1s All the actors and 1s participants and everybody in a large scale conspiracy cover up Silent. 1s Is to me, that's the not feasible part unless you just kill everybody. That that part I could believe. But. 3s There are 19 witnesses from Dealey Plaza who die in the three years following the assassination. The odds of that were accounted to be something like 200,000 trillion to 1. 1s Nobody kept anything quiet would be my response, Chris. I mean, there was stinker afoot from day one. And to have the director of the FBI declare a case closed in less than 24 hours. That alone is enough to put enough stink on something that there were people asking questions. And of the Warren Commission report. That information is essentially a narrative. But the 26 supporting volumes of Warren Commission testimony are full of people who contradict the Warren Report. It's chock full of people who the Warren Report didn't put in their final, final. The people who said no, I saw I saw a guy shooting and they're like, okay. Thanks. We'll talk to you if we need you. And and these people oftentimes were later interviewed. There are the two women who handled the phone, the last phone call of Lee Harvey Oswald. So there is it's suspected and it's hot near confirmed. There's all sorts of public record information that says Oswald was CIA. And that's not conspiracy theory fringe. That's no, that's the CIA having to backtrack in a congressional testimony when confronted with the fact that when they said Oswald was in Mexico, no, he was actually here. You know, and when presented with a memo that proves that. CIA folds it up, puts it in his pocket, walks out. That committee doesn't do squat about it. And that's on record. Congressional record. You've got people who from day one who not many in terms of 1s like the press. So the press comes out and a lot of them are like, oh, we people heard this. There were shots, all kinds of shots. The first gun that they presented on TV was a mouser within the right. It was a rifle, right. A bolt action. It was a bolt action. Mauser is the first gun that they had on a police report within 24 hours that changes to a man like a car, Kano piece of shit. And so the original police report has a mouth or the second. From there on, though, it's a man like a Cano. And you can see the difference in the pictures. The Mauser has a strap mount beneath it. At both mounting points, the man like a car cano has strap mounts on the side. And so these are the pictures taken by the Dallas PD. So how does that happen? That just doesn't get talked about. But there were people at the time just to refute who who did. There were Dallas police officers dropping dead by the score for the next decade. One of the chiefs got shot at multiple times. And sometimes it wasn't because they didn't go along after the first day. It was because they were on record saying one thing within the first six hours or 10 hours or 12 hours. That didn't fit the narrative that. 1s The FBI threw down within 24 hours, basically declaring the case closed. But there are you know, there are reporters with mysterious deaths along the way who are questioning this. Dorothy Kilgallen, who was one of the most famous women in America. Ernest Hemingway called her the greatest female writer on the planet. And she was also the star of this, like, game show talk show called What's My Line? And she was one of the few people doing an earnest investigation of the JFK assassination. And she had just flown down to New Orleans and written one of her friends a letter saying, I just broke open the whole thing. And she's 48 hours later, she's found, you know, overdosed. 1s By like 100 pills, except she hadn't vomited. There were a bunch of weird things about that scene. And Dan Rather initially, Dan Rather was not. Was. Reporting that there were multiple people. And then he became one of the biggest voices for like, you're a nut if you think. I think Dan Rather built his career on on on doing what he was told when this story came out because his initial reporting was was very contrary to what the official story became. And essentially, this was the first building block of his big old career. And by the time you get through this, if if any of the conspiracies are remotely correct. Then, Yeah. Dan Rather was a straight up shill for a conspiracy, but it wouldn't make him the only one. I mean, the number of, like, really weird deaths around it. And sometimes they're only weird because every other person in their circle died. And you've got. You've got testimonies. Those are weird guy. Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. If every other person in their work group, like guy who FBI guy tells his daughter, Listen, whatever happens to me when I die, it wasn't an accident. And no, I'm going to die by accident. He gets shot in his backyard. It's a hunting accident by a kid who's been hunting those woods for 20 some years. And it's it the whole that investigation was was it's a shady story unto itself, but, like, there's too many FBI guys telling their family, when I die, it wasn't an accident. And especially because they were getting subpoenaed in the mid 70s by the 2s House Select Committee on Assassinations, you had five FBI guys die within the course of six months and one of them died by suicide, two shots to the head while he jumped out of a boat. Two. 1s That's. That's in the coroner's report. For the love of God. So. 2s It's I would I would say it hasn't been quiet. It's just a choice of how how much you're willing to dig into the record. And there's evidence of this in how artificial intelligence presents information around the JFK assassination is, for example, the CIA has admitted to and apologized for controlling newsrooms for three decades on this topic. They had to apologize to investigative reporters. Mark Lane, I think was one of them. But they said, yeah, we were paying reporters to lie about the assassination for decades, you know, and we were controlling newsrooms. 2s So that's what artificial intelligence has to draw from in terms of an evidence base for it to bring in a consensus and create intelligent information. And so it's been really interesting having it write content about the JFK assassination, where it will give weight to the Warren Commission above anything else just because that's been the standard line. And so there's nine times more content sitting out there about it then the House Select Committee on Assassination. So I'll say things to it like. 1s Research how the CIA controlled the narrative of the JFK assassination. Can you figure that into how you weight your commentary? When I ask you to do a command and it basically responds with, Wow, that's fucked up. But it does disclaim. And so it'll say crazy things that contradict the Warren Commission, but then it'll say, but everything's basically a conspiracy theory and there's no reason not to trust the Warren Commission when why are we talking about the Warren Commission if there's been four subsequent commissions, for God's sakes? So I did not I didn't even know that. And it you know, it's interesting because I definitely think the Warren Commission has like the best image in terms of that. It was a big investigation and it was congressional and they had, you know, the most resources and the most power. I mean, I know there have been smaller private ones of journalists and historians who've dug into it and gotten lots of documents and interviewed people. 2s I've seen some interesting slowdowns, too, of the the Zapruder film. And, you know, it's only as as good as the technology where they they just slow it down as much as they can and go frame by frame. And 1s that's pretty interesting. I mean, the event the event is not in dispute. It's, um, you know. 1s Who. Where. What direction. How high. 5s You know, there are certain things about it. There are certain lexicon words that come from that 1s grassy knoll. When you need a magic bullet in your story, you and your magic magic in your story, you got to. You got a preposterous story in a in a in a legal environment. It's all I'm saying. The magic. The magic bullet. You know, the man on the grassy knoll. You know, these these terms that 1s everybody knows that it's just when when you say it, that's, you know, what you're 1s you're referencing, which is just crazy. I mean. 2s Even if you just said something that doesn't have anything to do related with Crime Book Depository. I mean, to me, that's the first the first thing first of all, I don't think there's ever been another book depository anywhere on earth except on that street, because I never have heard it. And it's always referenced that way when they talk about it. It was just basically a large building where I think the school board kept textbooks. 1s Some people call that a warehouse. Oh, a warehouse? Yeah. Book depository. There is. And I'll have to correlate this to one of the titles I read. But there is the whole handling of the Zapruder film. That's a book in itself. And there's a great deal of evidence that that that was tampered with. In fact, there is a strong argument to be made that the only reason it appears as though he jerked mightily in any direction is because they removed the frames where his head was basically a fountain entirely. And so. 2s Eyewitnesses said matter was shooting five feet straight up in the air all over the place. And if you look at Jackie Kennedy, matter was shooting all over the place. But and you see you see. It's damage. 2s But the eyewitness testimony speaks to basically an explosion that goes up and his head goes. And and the idea being that is he just after his head sort of frankly, exploded. Then he slumped to the left. But they they skipped a bunch of stuff. And he it appears as though he jerks to the left. I want to say it was Kodak up in New York State. Albany, No, but there's a there's and they were doing processing for like U-2 missions and stuff like that. And that's where it got developed. And there were people who were sent there to get it developed on two occasions. And there was a chain of custody that is disrupted in that story. And the people who went the first time didn't know about the people who went to second time. And there are and well and no, it was openly it was like a news item. There were frames reversed at one point and they said that was a processing mistake. 1s But there's there's a number of far more eloquently done dissertations on just the handling and technology around the the Kodak location in New York. 1s Who usually sent them stuff to process. Was it law enforcement or was it the CIA? And who did? Who was their customer, essentially? And yeah, the chain of command and or chain of command. Chain of custody is is very sort of. Wacky, which it shouldn't be. This was kind of a big deal. So you think they would have that pretty tight. But that's in terms of the Zapruder film, the craziest thing I've heard is that there are frames missing and that's why it looks like he jerks to the left because they weren't going to show his head fountain all over the place. 2s Mm. It's what's interesting to me, it's in that Oliver Stone film is there's like a palm print on the side of the rifle which somebody, somebody did processing of it first. And he, Jim Garrison's character in the film references, you know, that it was processed for latent fingerprints and then and there was nothing but then oh wait no there's an entire palm print on, uh, on the other side that was later, later discovered or discovered by a second examiner or something. That was that was pretty interesting to me because it's like, how do you how do you miss an entire palm print on on a weapon, you know? 3s I mean, when when you watch that movie at the end, you're you're really like, man, I don't I don't know. I mean, it's it's just so interesting. And then Kevin Costner is great in it and how they string everything together and all the the shady people that they're re interviewing and talking to, 1s you know, and but then you tie in the. 1s You know that Jack Ruby comes out of nowhere and, 1s you know, during the perp walk kills Oswald, you know, of the the perp walk of the most important suspect in the history of the United States in a jailhouse in the in the basement parking lot of a police station is able to glide right in brandish a weapon, get it to the point where it's center mass while he's within two feet of nine different law enforcement officers. And I can't blame them. If none of them were in on it, I'd have been as surprised as is anybody if I was them. But it seems odd that he could get from point A to point B and nobody say, Look, man, this isn't the day for you to be hanging out. Like, how does that not happen? You know, how does that not happen? And then it's that's in the jailhouse. The other, you know, fun thing that takes place is he doesn't get a lawyer in a jailhouse. He he protests he's innocent from the get calls himself a patsy from the jump. And request a lawyer from the jump. The only phone call he makes is to South Carolina, and it doesn't get connected. The women who worked for the phone company later came out and told their stories and said two men in suits came in, sat down. They said, okay, take the call. And they said, Now give it to me. And they never plugged it in. They never connected the call. And that's the testimony of these two women who were operators at the time in the room at the time. Why they chose to say that they said it. And I think it's tough to argue why. 1s To my knowledge, they didn't get rich saying it, and I don't know what their lives were going to get better by saying something like that. The I can tell you and I'm dying to come up with the senator's name, but it was always 1s the suspicion or the best theory I've heard, frankly, is that Oswald was part of a fake defector program. The fake defector program has been confirmed by United States senators on record during interviews to have been run out of South Carolina. How does a guy who walks into the US embassy and says, I'm defecting to Russia? I have better than top clearance for you to stuff I know where troops are. He had better than top secret clearance related to U-2 spy plane missions. Tells the embassy I'm going to defect, goes to Russia, marries a girl within two weeks whose uncle is part of the Russian intelligence community. 1s Shortly thereafter returns to the United States is welcomed with open arms. 1s Given clearance. 2s And in no way, shape or form hindered, investigated or disrupted in any way ever having after having disavowed the United States of America. In fact, he was met in Hoboken, New Jersey, upon his return from Russia by a known government go between who instructed him to go meet a gentleman by the name of George Damon Shield. George Damon Shield was known CIA George Damon Shield in his late life, wrote a letter to George Bush SR when he was head of the CIA, begging him. I think the quote was, you know, just make this go away. I'm always being followed, but literally got met in Hoboken, New Jersey, by somebody with government ties told to go hang out with another guy with government ties down in Texas. And dementia was widely is widely suspected or known to be his handler, Damon Shield killed himself under wacky circumstances. But that aside, who tells the United States government, I'm out, I'm going to Russia during the Cold War, right. With you to top secret clearance marrying a Russian girl. Coming right back. And I'm welcomed with open arms. I mean, that's as preposterous, preposterous as anything else in the story at face value, when you really think of that during the Cold War. This happened and he didn't get a second look. The thing about that story that makes me feel like he was just kind of mentally ill is if you're going to defect in secret, why would you go and announce that you're defecting? That kind of. That kind of takes the clandestine part out of it. Not if not, no. Because he he told that to the Americans. Every American embassy was bugged during the Cold War. He was doing that because he was trying to get the Russians to think he was a fake defector. 2s That's that's the presumption is that he walked into the embassy knowing it was bugged and said, look, I just want you to know I'm done as a citizen. I'm going over there. These are things I know. I don't know if I'm going to what I'm going to tell them. But just so you know, I'm out of here. And the idea would be that he knows that that's a direct line to Russian intelligence so that then hopefully he can go over there and oh, okay. So he's like planting the seed, like making himself bait. Okay. Okay. And so it's a false defector program. So even the guys at the embassy wouldn't have known. They they wouldn't have called ahead and say, listen, this guy's faking it. No, he'd have walked in there. Let them be like, good Lord, man. And then 1s knowing that, that would hopefully. But the thinking on that is that he laid it on a little too thick, maybe like there's nothing subtle about that. And if Russian Russia's been down this road a thousand times at this point, or if they're suspicious about fake defectors, which clearly that had to be going on like mad. 2s That once he was, they didn't buy it, basically. Although he did get an interesting job over there in an interesting factory. 2s Having to do with defense. But even that's weird. But he comes back. It's just. It's just. It sounds like. The Russians were like, Yeah, we're not buying it, but we'll just sort of see what goes on. And he comes back, sort of gets brought back into the intelligence community and they start sending them down to New Orleans to do weird things like get into a fight pretending he's pro Castro while he's still hanging out with, like, crazy right wingers behind the scenes. Oh, yeah, that was it. Fair play for Cuba, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You. Yeah. And so. 1s Fascinating. But I do think just going back to any assertion that there are too many people involved and they kept it quiet. No, there were so many people involved and so many people who weren't quiet about it. But there's really no benefit to not being quiet. You weren't even going to sell a million books. Like, 1s there's there's a story. Do you know who Irv couples in it is? He was a writer out of Chicago. He talked about sports law. He wrote, He was famous like in the 60s, 70s, when we were kids. And he was friends with some mobsters, apparently. And this is backed up by phone records. He called his mobster friends in Chicago. He lived in Chicago and was asking about, hey, were you guys involved in this? His daughter ended up dead within like a week and he never talked about the JFK assassination again. And he was prior to that, he was a very investigative type of guy. Like he would stick his nose in. He was hard nosed after that. He never said a thing to anybody. He made one phone call to a mobster and those records came out. And probably some one of the investigations. Probably not. Warren. Yeah, his his daughter died under wildly mysterious circumstances. Another another very sketchy overdose where, like, even the, you know, just physical characteristics of the room, I think, again, lack of vomiting, things like that, that made it suspicious. But what's the upside? And making a lot of noise about the JFK conspiracy stuff held the word conspiracy, got attached to this right of way. And you're a crazy. You're not that kind of thing. Well, and that's the that's how you discredit anybody who, you know, has information is, you know, you attack their character, you know that they're a bad person or they're criminal or they're the associate with with bad people. So then even if they have good information about something, if it damages their credibility in any in any scenario, you know, it's easier to discredit them if if if it goes that way. Um, the the most interesting thing to me because I think evidence conspiracies are hard to prove the most interesting thing to me was and I would love if somebody would be able to do it is if you could somehow block off that whole area on that road, because I believe that road is still there in Dallas and there's like a bridge and how that motorcade went. And if you could get 1s a vehicle and have mannequins in it and if you could put somebody in the window that they think that he is in or was in, and if he could if that basically if they could reconstruct the shooting in that way. Not with computers. No. And they've done that with with the with the best shooters in the world that they could get. They did all the all the geometry about it has been done. 1s To the latter so they know what distance is. And they they did it. Nobody could do it. Nobody could do it. That's what to me, that's the interest. That's the interesting part is then they shorten the distance by half and like, one guy could do it. Right. That's the most interesting part to me is if. Is this, uh, replicable? You know, that you're shooting with an antiquated weapon at great distance. That is bolt action. 1s Well, I mean, he had some military training, but he had the bare basic qualifications. The word marksman does not mean you're a marksman. It means you're right. Your basic basic qualifications that you call. What they all. Yeah, they're always like, oh, he was a he was a marksman in the in the Marines. Yeah. There's different marksman means he passed the basic shooting. The basic shooting. Now, now I will tell you, though, Marines can hit a silhouette at 500 yards with iron sights. But. 2s The the distance, the trajectory and the the three. What do we say? Three shots. And it was what? 2s The president. Jackie was at Senator Connally, a governor. 1s Governor Connally, 1s who he was struck. He was struck as well, I think, in the wrist. 2s He had shattered ribs. He had a shattered wrist. And he had a he had a bullet in his leg when when the dust settled. 1s Yeah, I really. 2s And what? And they're saying three rounds, basically. Well, yeah. And one of them created like five holes between the two of them. But that's I don't I don't I don't think that's on the table anymore. I don't think the Warren Commission like. Acoustic findings or ballistic findings. Hold any water. And I think honestly, I don't. 1s I don't think they have any credence whatsoever or any place in the debate at this point. 1s It's. Come on. You found a pristine bullet rolling out of a body in the hospital. Oh, by the way, I'm not sure he was. Oh, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Oh, hey, there's a bullet. Come on, dude. The bullet that shattered a wrist is in one piece. Here's the other thing. The weight of the bullets pieces at the end of the day, weighed more than three bullets. 2s Okay. I see what you're saying. 1s You know what? They were committed. They were committed to the number three for whatever reason. So. Because anything more than three and you've got two shooters, anything is. They're using words like magic. That one guy pulled it off. So more than three shots would have had to have definitely been a team. 1s And that's why it had to be That's why all the witnesses there's a guy who worked for the train company right behind the Book Depository. There's tracks. He's in a tower watching a guy. Behind the fence in the parking lot. Up the hill on top of the grassy knoll. 2s A shooter. 3s He died. He's the one who saw the white. He saw the white smoke over the fence. No, no. He was behind the fence, watching from behind. So. Okay. A female witness saw the white smoke. A bunch of people saw white smoke. A bunch of people. So white smoke and a bunch of people saw multiple people in the window on the sixth floor. One gentleman was described as dark skinned, could have been Latino, could have been black. But that's could that's in this conversation. It makes you wonder if that could have been somebody who was part of the Cuban program that was originally supposed to assassinate Castro, because those are the teams and the plans that they use to kill JFK. This was this whole thing was a Castro assassination program that was set up by JFK and signed off on by JFK and those exact management 1s teams. They first they tried Chicago, then they tried Miami and Tampa. And and there was a Department of Defense team that stopped all those assassination attempts and they were sent sending another team, not Secret Service. Yeah, I want to say it was. 1s There were. Assassination interdiction teams in addition to Secret Service sent to all these who stopped plots they knew of and they failed in downs. But the three previous visits JFK made, he acknowledged he was having conversations with people about whether or not and they did cancel. They I want to say they canceled in Florida even doing something because they didn't foil who was involved. But there there are people arrested in was it Chicago or was it Miami, the guy who got arrested whose whole previous three year resume matched Oswald's almost to a T in terms of all his behaviors, who he had been linked with, in terms of what they were into. And so. 1s It appears they may have had multiple Oswalds in multiple locations. And he was the Dallas Patsy. They had a probably a Miami patsy, a Tampa Patsy, a Chicago patsy, because these are all places where there were known plots acknowledged by the Kennedys. They discussed it in cases, they went, in cases they canceled, but they did not want to cancel Dallas. Well, here we are today. I made things a little different, but it is it is. If you read a bunch of books, you realize, oh, there were people talking about this all the time. There are people like immediately after saying to their kids like, Oh, beware, I'm probably going to get whacked. And there were FBI agents ten years later committing suicide with two bullets in the head while they jump off a boat because they were on a subpoena list so that they just got wiped out. And that's all kind of public record stuff. And when you put it all together, it's kind of interesting or it sounds batshit crazy. It's definitely one of the two, depending on who you're talking to. And I realized I get so excited by the topic because to me it's like a crime mystery. So I'm like, And then this and this. And people are probably like, Dude, you're talking about like, you're way too excited for this topic. And I think that that I don't know how much that takes away from my own credibility, but I've read all the books that I can get my hands on and on, sort of both sides of the story. I just I can't. So preposterous using words like magic for that one side that I've basically just swept it swept it off at this point when when people who provide information that is small, a small piece of the puzzle either mysteriously or murdered or die in some weird accident, that that's interesting. You know, the shot in the head twice off the boat, you know, 1s heart attack, you know, fell asleep on the road, drove off the road, carjacking victim or whatever. And you're like, that's pretty weird. I mean, because like if you looked at, say, your high school photo, like I have a class photo, I had a pretty big graduating class, like 400 kids 1s 20 years later, 30 years later, 40 years later were, you know, were 200 of them murdered or committed suicide? Because like you think about it, statistically in a population, how many people would, you know, be the victim of an accident, the victim of a crime, or take their own life? So if you have this one small population where the only thing they have in common is that they were affiliated with certain people or worked at a certain place or had a certain job, and then 20 years later, out of 100 of them, 98 of them. 1s Um, excuse me, are deceased. 1s That statistically just definitely an outlier. That's the Dealey Plaza math. It's. It's 19 people at a Dealey Plaza. But then the rings go concentric because once committees start showing up in subpoenas, start going out, that's when the the just mass death starts happening. In the Kennedy assassination story, It's people just got wiped out there in the 70s whose names are relevant to this story and whether they were mobsters, whether they were FBI, big shots, whether they were suspected, CIA, that kind of thing, or it's just so many, I want to say like. 1s Probably at least a dozen. 1s Related to the House Select Committee on Assassinations because there's five FBI and not all the FBI stories are they were all deemed heart attack or accidental shot by a hunting or suicide shot twice in the head, jumping out of a boat. That's the most ridiculous one. What I would be interested in is so I can't remember the officer's name. So basically, after the shooting, Oswald flees the Book Depository, and a Dallas patrolman for some reason decides to check out with Oswald, basically do like what we call a fear, like basically get out with them, talk to them, check his identification, and pretty quickly into the contact, Oswald shoots and kills that officer and then. 3s He is ultimately arrested in a movie theater in Dallas. But I'm was curious to know, like, what? And that to me, because that's the cop part in me, like, what is the chain of events? Like how how do you go from. An area that's far away from where the shooting occurred to an officer getting out with this man who's just walking in the daytime, the officers murdered, and then they descend on this theater that he's in and then he's in custody. And then very quickly they're saying that, oh, yeah. And he shot, you know, Officer Smith. Oh, and the president, you know, and it's like, what? How did what connect? Tip it off. Yeah, tip it. And so tip it was a part. Also was a bouncer. He worked for Jack Ruby at Jack Ruby strip club as a bouncer Tip it and Jack Ruby are possibly some of the more compelling keys to the whole story being. Obvious bullshit. And so for one thing, he shared, he he was living in Dallas. I want to say, like five days. Yeah. Like he. He rented a room from a lady his landlady used to gossip with the. So she was friends with the wives of the cops who had that sort of patrol beat. 1s In their car and you probably got neat coat for that. And then 2s she saw that day she reported in her testimony that a cop car stopped in front of the house when Lee had run home. 1s And honked. She thought it was going to be the husband of one of her friends. So she went and Pete said the number was wrong, said, I can't tell you what the number was, but I can tell you it wasn't this number because that's Jack's unit or whatever. So she just ignored it. And then if there were no other patrol cars anywhere near. 2s That area. 2s And that's in the general area where obviously Tippit gets shot. Oswald was or Tippit was not supposed to be anywhere near there at that time. That was not his patrol area at the time he got shot. Furthermore, the very first forensic analysis of the scene in terms of somebody picking up a cartridge or a casing, rather, and looking at it, said this is an automatic weapon. He got shot with an automatic weapon. 2s That's a very first impression. And I believe there were too many shots for a revolver, according to witness testimony, because people heard Tippit get shot. Eyewitnesses said they watched a man in certain slacks, certain shirt and certain jacket walk away from the scene after walking around the front of the car, putting a kill shot in them and reloading his gun, walking away. None of those elements fit the description of Oswald, but those don't make it into the Warren Commission report. Those are in the 26 volumes of reference resources for the Warren Commission. Every bit, if you looked at just the tip at shooting as a crime scene, you would you personally, I think you'd be done with the Warren Commission report if you just read about the J.D. Tippit shooting and how ridiculous and preposterous the story around that is. 2s Why would that be faked? Why would that be covered up? Why would that be in any way not a transparent investigative element. It's part of this whole assassination thing. And that's not even getting into the part where it probably would have been physically impossible for him to cover the ground. Okay. To walk the distance? Yeah. To cover to cover the distance from his the assassination shooting to the I mean, basically a good rule of thumb is a healthy adult. You can walk a mile in about 15 minutes. Yeah. So when when we would be out on the road and we would have some kind of crime, some kind of robbery or something where people are calling 911 and you're setting that perimeter. A lot of times I would look at the map, basically push it out, because if they say it occurred at 10:00 and they called it 1005, push it back 20 minutes, because first they panicked and freaked out and called their wife and then kind of walked around for a few minutes and were were upset and crying and scared. And so they're not being dishonest about what happened. They're just they're trying to tell you quickly. But more time has elapsed than they realized. And so you're you know, it just happened. It just happened. He just ran off. That is really 5 or 10 minutes ago. So you would set that perimeter out further. Because, you know, whatever they they try to relay to you, you know. So luckily where I work, 1s it's like a grid system, the street. So it makes it easy to set perimeters now. But, 1s you know, if it happened on second second Avenue, you don't want to put a police car on Third Avenue because he's already he's past 10th. You know what I mean? Like by the time you get set up. So I wonder what that that physical distance is between the room he was renting. So now I'm going to have to read all these books. 1s But to me, it's 1s eye witness. Eye witness testimony is interesting, but to me that is the least reliable. Like because people not that they're lying, but they interpret things, they see things differently. They attribute certain things to whatever. I like bullet holes, shell casings, blood spatter, things that are are. Um, concrete that you can look at and review. And then, you know, 2s like if you have a BPA expert, you know, you can. 1s Figure out the math and they can't give you a perfect point of origin for it, but they can give you a range and those things. Then to me, those things make your witness either credible or not. You know, like, have you ever heard the term stippling? 1s Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's the burning from the gunpowder. So if. If I got shot right here and I have a black circle, and then, like, a field of burnt powder that's burnt my skin, and you say you and I got into a fight, and you say that I was coming at you with a shovel. And I was. But you shot me and you were 50ft away. That's a contact wound or near contact within probably six inches. So that evidence then to me is determines your credibility of your testimony. 2s That's. Yeah, that'll come up. When you read about the assassination of Robert F Kennedy, when you look at what the official story is and then when you read about the damage done basically by point blank, 3s what would you call it? A point blank discharge. The Killshot was behind his right ear. It was described as just burned point blank. And Sirhan Sirhan was 3 to 4ft away from him, pointing a gun at his chest. 3s That's the official now. He was. He was. 3s Was he the attorney general when that happened? 1s No, he was he was a senator at that point. But he had just just secured the Democratic primary. 1s I think he might have just secured the nomination in California. And so he was at the Ambassador Hotel and he was taken on a route that they weren't supposed to be taken on through a part of the hotel that they weren't supposed to go through. And there's Sirhan Sirhan 1s waiting for him, stands in front of him directly. Starts firing shots gets tackled by Rosey Grier, who's a professional football player, gets tackled by George Plimpton, who was a writer, personality, actor, slash CIA operative. His wife was there, but the whole room was packed. But all the Sirhan Sirhan is in front of him shooting. And then even in the autopsy. So I can. I can I can explain that. 2s So you point your. Your pretend gun at me, your finger. And we're chest to chest. Right. 1s But what do I do? 3s Maybe so now. So now your one of your rounds that hits me here. That. 2s You know what I mean? I hear you, but that doesn't explain that. No, I'm not saying there's. There's two more in behind him in his ribs. So as if And just, for example, if the police officer who was guiding him through that pantry by the right elbow happened to be a CIA agent, which it later came out in interviews, that he was he he trained he trained Cuban dissidents for the Bay of Pigs invasion. That's just neither here nor there. So he's walking Bobby Kennedy through a pantry on the day Bobby Kennedy takes a bullet right where this guy's standing. I think it's boom, boom, boom. And that's it. And there are eyewitnesses who said they watched so or he shot him in the body because there's two eyewitnesses who said a bellboy walked right up to Bobby Kennedy, put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. Multiple credible witnesses said, I watched and one of them swears it's Sirhan Sirhan. He's like, No, I saw him do it. And they're like, no, he was in front of him. That's not the guy. He's like, he was wearing a white jacket. And I saw the whole thing. I saw Sirhan Sirhan shoot him. And they're like, Sir, the guy in the white jacket, he. He was wearing a dark suit or something like that. So in that room, first of all, there's like four extra bullet holes. Everybody sees fire shooting out of his gun as far. In your quick hypothesis investigator, what would make a gun shoot fire out this far? 2s Um. 2s Probably like if you had a hot load round in a short barrel weapon. Like. Like you could shoot a 357 round out of a 38. But it's not designed to do that. Ultimately, you will damage the weapon. And I mean, it could potentially like Frag in your hand. But if somebody had made the rounds sometimes I used to go to this one range where the guy who owned it would reload ammunition and sometimes you would get a light one that was like a cap gun. It was like and it didn't really have the bang to it. And then sometimes you would get what they call a heavy load where it had a little extra gunpowder in it. Then it should for that size and it would make a really big difference. So I would say heavy loaded, self loaded bullets or a larger. Was it a revolver or a semi-auto revolver? Yeah. So I would say probably probably heavy, heavy loaded rounds in in a smaller weapon, like like I said. 1s What would blanks look like? Getting shot out of a short nose revolver. 3s Um. 2s Because that's where I'm going. 2s It's that he wasn't even he he didn't even have live ammunition. So. Blanks. Traditionally it it's a real like what they use on the movie sets. It's. 2s It's the casing. There's gunpowder in there. There's a primer. So the 1s the hammer has or the firing pin has something to strike to create that explosion. But it doesn't have the projectile portion that actually shoots out the bullet. So they can make their movie or whatever. 1s So that the element missing is the the bullet. The projectile 1s would that would. So they'd have you shot them. Because I'm under the impression that a blank gun will give you that effect. We'll give you a fire effect because it's paper wadding in there, if nothing else. Right. Yes, it does. Yeah. It gives it gives an effect of. And that's what they need for the movies because, you know they they need that burst that. 2s But yeah, but those rounds that are not rounds, though those 1s movie rounds don't have the projectile in it unless you're on the set of rust, then it does. I'm thinking of wood. They give the effect of shooting fire out because the the the conspiracy. Robert f Kennedy Jr believes what I'm about to tell you, that Sirhan Sirhan never fired a bullet. A bullet never left his gun. And all the damage came from behind. 2s That's all the medical reports say. But if you and the CIA, by the way, literally has magicians on staff and their whole job is to teach you how to make everybody in the room look at one thing while you do something incredible in another part of the room. And that's what they think happened. But the problem is there's like 22 people in this tiny little pantry and a couple of them saw somebody put a gun right to the back of his head when on record testified. This woman, Bobby Plimpton, was married to a celebrity. There was no dirt on her. Otherwise, we would have found out in my reading that she's a crazy maniac, perfectly reputable. So, no, I saw somebody while Sirhan is over there pulling the trigger, I'm looking at Bobby Kennedy and a dude walked right up behind and put a gun to his head. Pull the trigger. And so what? What would. 1s What would be the motivation, though, to get as far as to have a shooter in front of the person shooting blanks and then the real person behind him shooting? If you could get one person close enough face to face with him, why not just have him be your killer? 4s Because, like, what's the benefit to him? Well, because they just burned a lone nut. Because then you can get rid of the most important people in the country who are going to stop wars and cost $1 trillion out of somebody's bank account by having somebody disappear and not having people look into it. It's the not having people look into it that arises by having a lone nut. And so a guy who had no history of hating the Kennedys, a guy who had no history of hating America, a guy who had, you know, a very mild mannered before a head injury, I should mention, 2s that brought him into psychiatric treatment with a doctor who has a history of working for the CIA and also overlaps with the Charles Manson story, which again, just makes this sound batshit crazy. But one of the people who treated Sirhan Sirhan after he fell off a horse, hit his head on a post and then went into this weird depression, started seeing a psychiatrist. 2s All he wanted to be was a jockey, by the way. But if you've got a guy who's dark skinned from a middle Eastern country with a head injury and you've got a doctor who can spot him and be like, hey, I got a I got an opportunity for you for that thing you told me to watch out for. You wanted a guy like this with maybe some head injuries so we can program them. 1s Hypnotize him. When Rosie Grier, a defensive tackle, says he can't wrestle the gun out of £160 man's hand, one hand had one hand grip on it and Rosie Greer could not get the gun out of his hand. By all accounts, that's a symptom of being under hypnosis. He also has no recollection of any of it happening, which is a symptom of being under hypnosis. None of the Kennedy kids think he did it. Not that that's a symptom of being under hypnosis, but like from the jump, he didn't know if he was guilty or not. Got a terrible trial with a ridiculous defense attorney because all he could say was, I don't know. So they were like, well, you know, basically you did it like you killed fricking Robert F Kennedy. And he had no recollection. His story never changed. He never failed a lie detector test. He never changed his tone. The Kennedy family has been campaigning to get him out of prison for 1s decades. I think because the story on its face is so preposterous. But that's where it gets weird. You've got a guy and all these stories, including Lee Harvey Oswald, they all involve strip clubs and they all involve hypnosis. And I think that's where I think that's where the hypnosis was happening or that's where their control was happening because. 2s A Ruby owned a strip club and Sirhan Sirhan was seen in that kitchen and accompanied the whole night by what is described as a bombshell beauty like 1950s pin up beauty in a polka dot dress, just hanging out with Sirhan Sirhan all night and that she was the one to give him a pinch, give him a poke or whatever, that he instantly goes into pull a gun mode and pulling the trigger. And he has no recollection of any of it. But there is crazy, weird overlap around conversation about mind control, hypnosis and well documented programs that our government has now admitted to in subsequent decades that cover all these things in all these places during all these times. But you get any weirder than that. And, you know, people just don't know how to watch your YouTube video. They think you're a nut. 2s I the the Kennedy the president Kennedy assassination was always. 2s I, you know, saw it and read about it and thought about it. 1s Well, if you if you dig into any of it and I'll send you a link, I'll have some Kennedy book recommendations live this week and I'll send you the link. But if you dig into any of that stuff and you want to argue with me about it, that'd be awesome. I just can't get enough. And I know this. I regret not recording some Kennedy stuff last year because the sooner I get it out, the mortal get warmed up in the YouTube algorithm. But I do think when November rolls around also with Robert F Kennedy Jr running for president, I think the topic of the 60th anniversary of JFK's assassination is going to come up. 3s The best way to follow subscribe rate or message the show is to visit NJ criminal podcasts. Com. 1s Don't forget to subscribe, because before you know it, we'll be back with another great conversation.